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F I D O N E W S -- Vol.13 No.10 (04-Mar-1996) +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: | | FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS | | _ | +1-519-570-4176 | | / \ | | | /|oo \ | | | (_| /_) | | | _`@/_ \ _ | | | | | \ \\ | Editors: | | | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 | | |__U__| / \// | | | _//|| _\ / | | | (_/(_|(____/ | | | (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. | | | -- JOSEPH PULITZER | +----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+ | Submission address: editors 1:1/23 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | MORE addresses: | | | | submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | | Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | For information, copyrights, article submissions, | | obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq | | please refer to the end of this file. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ======================================================================== Table of Contents ======================================================================== 1. Editorial..................................................... 1 2. Articles...................................................... 2 Fido & Politics............................................. 2 Prime Directive............................................. 4 Subject: Bwahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!........................ 5 Nodelist Size For a Different Reason........................ 5 HTML pages in FidoNet....................................... 6 Free Listings in the Encyclopedia of Associations........... 7 Chicken Little Was Right.................................... 8 alt.bighub.org FidoNet/Inet gateway......................... 9 DEATH KNOLL FOR FIDONET?.................................... 10 3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 12 ======================================================================== Editorial ======================================================================== FidoNews 13-10 Page: 2 04 Mar 1996 A largish issue this week, and I am running late, so here is the snooze. ======================================================================== Articles ======================================================================== Fido & Politics Part 2 of ? By Patrick Driscoll As I read last weeks Snooze, I realized I have hit a chord with at least 2 other sysops in Fidonet. They both discussed basically what I am planning to cover this week...Fido and the Internet. First, a little story. Many years ago, a small computer company made a computer. It worked fairly well, and the company convinced many schools in the US to buy their computer. Their computer ran on a different standard than normal, high-end business computers and they thought they could become the standard if they got all the children to use their computers. Well, the high-end business computers got less high-end and every one was buying these computers. The little company noticed this but thought they could still be the standard. The other computers became wide used and became the defacto standard, but the little company still kept their standard, saying everyone will come around and use their computers. When the evil, other computers were the standard, the little company thought "hey. maybe we should use that standard, since nobody uses ours", but that was too little, too late. Now the little company is still little, with nowhere to go but down. This is a prime example of not reading the winds of change correctly and not reacting quick enough to the change. Fidonet is at this same point right now. We were a contender as THE net at one time, but not anymore. We have failed to read the winds of change, and are failing to act now. The Internet has jumped in leaps and bounds over the last 2 years. The Usenet, which is a companion to the Internet, has also grown over the last 2 years. Fidonet, on the other hand, has started a downhill slide, mostly over the last 2 years. While we will never be a 'worldwide web' class of system, we can still be a contender for a Usenet class system. Fidonet hatches out a NODEDIFF file, a file used to update the Fido Nodelist, weekly. In the past 6 months I have followed the nodediffs and have watched whole nets just disappear. Systems come and systems go, but a net should be in the nodelist forever...but only if there are nodes in an area to have a net. Politics have some to do with this, but mostly it's a lack of use by the users. Here is my experience on what has happened. In the past, say 3 years ago, I had a fairly active userbase that used Fido. I had an average of 30 calls a day, which was not bad for this area at the time. Now, I average over 100 calls a day, with little to no use of the Fido areas, but a fairly heavy use of the few Usenet areas I carry. Technically, there is no difference between the echomail theory and the Usenet theory. Both offer areas geared to a particular subject or an FidoNews 13-10 Page: 3 04 Mar 1996 area of interest, but the Usenet has some distinct advantages. First, the Usenet has a much greater dispersion of mail. Second, the mail is MUCH faster. Fido just doesn't have the speed of the Usenet, but could have the usership of the Usenet if it offered the speed. A few things are stopping this from happening. One, we lack to software to handle doing this kind of mail network. Fidonet runs on a archahic system of connected computers on dialup lines. Ok, some say "but my mail comes in via automated FTP or Planet Connect. Well, we are still bottlenecked by the landline based starhubs and smaller distribution points all through the net. The whole concept of echomail transfers via FTS must be looked at again from a technical standpoint. The second reason we can't do a Usenet style net is the powers that be wish to retain all control of the net, for whatever reasons. Almost all major hubs in fidonet wish to continue with business as usual. No tricky software changes, no 'anyone can get the mail and distribuate it' kind of thoughts, ect. for these people. They maintain control, and thats the way it is. As for our netmail capabilities, they are lame at best. I offer free internet e-mail to any of my users, and did offer free netmail until I discovered that most Fidonet sysops do not allow non-sysop email on thier boards. As was explained to me by one sysop, "if a user wants to send netmail to someone, have him just get an Internet account, as I ain't bothering with netmail to my users". Netmail, according to many sysops, is a way for SYSOPS to contact each other, thats it. Maybe so, or maybe not, but do remember, services like JUNO offer absolutly free E-mail with local dialup access to most of the US. If we are planning to compete for users with the Internet, we need to look at this aspect also. The present method of sending netmail is too expensive for the small sysop to crash at anytime, and too slow to route it via the channels that exist. Again we need to look at changing our technology to handle this sort of mail, and get the politics of the routing channels out of the loop. Ok, you say I talk the talk, but don't offer any solutions. Here are some suggestions I have. I do not profess to have a lot of technical training in this field but do have enough to offer an idea or two. We could develop a method of a central distribution point in each zone and use automated FTP to move the mail. Right now, many systems are using this method to get mail from George Peace, as my net does. David Blanchard, the NEC of net 372, does a damn good job moving the mail, at a cost of $5.00 a month. He pays George Peace whatever he asks a month plus the cost of an Internet account. Does the internet account have to be a full service SLIP/PPP account? I don't think so. I believe it can be done with a inexpensive Unix shell. Just consider the cost of the Internet account as part of running a BBS, and it does not look that bad. If we pushed this method of mail moving, we could have a noticeable increase in speed. The main distribution point should also allow netmail to be gated into and from the internet, and forwarded to whatever system it is addressed to, and that system should be able to easily post the netmail on his/her board for the user to read and respond to. This would cut the cost of netmail considerably, and speed it up. It all sounds good, but how to do it? Again, we are limited by software and the FTSC/FTN technology. Change the standards and the authors will write programs to suite the new standards. Anyone who has FidoNews 13-10 Page: 4 04 Mar 1996 a valid nodenumber should get mail from whoever wishes to feed them, and not be forced to use the local hub. I say the internet already exists, lets see if we can't use it to help Fidonet survive in this new world. More on this issue in the next Snooze, if they wish to post it. As usual, all love letters, flames, death threats, ect. welcome. Pat 1:372/19 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Prime Directive by Bill Whitehouse After 8 years, the fido policy I continue to find most appealing is its 'promote the growth of network' prime directive, a requirement that assumes like any other living organism or human enterprise, unless fido grows, fido dies... Snooze editor Donald Tees is right, my fellow fidonuts. The numbers confirm it. Fidonet is dying. Blaming our appointed coordinators is all too easy. They've long since ceased to promote the growth of this network, unless they can self-promote every last dime out of it. Witness the fact that with 4 primary North American fido vendors, the oaficial area lists now reflect reality for only one of them. No, our coordinators are only a symptom. We've seen the enemy and the real enemy is us. Remember those quaint days of yesteryear when many feared the phone company megaliths would finally contrive to shut down bbsing forever? We've forgotten why we're here, what makes fido unique. We belong to a network that belongs to all of us, and anyone else who cares to add their resources to the collective whole. The internet, by contrast, is a cold, barren place, populated by anonymous geeks with no sense of community, stumbling around computers they do not own, resources in whose management they have no say. No one's responsible. Everyone's vulnerable. And they're squandering a fortune. This - fidonet - is personal. As in 'personal computer'? We each control our own small part of it. We built it. It's ours. Fidonet has earned and deserves a place in the future of the networked world. Speaking as one bbs obsessive to another, I urge you to promote it with the zeal of a Jehovah's Witness. Please don't give up. Bill (1:323/3@fidonet) - Radio Free Echomail FidoNews 13-10 Page: 5 04 Mar 1996 Subject: Bwahahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!! From: The Terminator (1:2805/1) To: Donald Tees (1:221/192) You'd better change da Snooze. It's no longer available at ftp.fidonet.org because fidonet.org NO LONGER EXISTS!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nodelist Size For a Different Reason By Clay Tinsley, 1:124/5125 Nodelist Size For a Different Reason Is Fidonet shrinking? Have we finally maxed out? With all the online services and exponential growth of the Internet, it wouldn't surprise me. I've been in the nodelist since September 1988. When I joined, there were about 4,500 nodes in Fidonet. Now, according to the current nodelist, there are almost 40,000, approaching a 10x growth in almost 8 years. When you think about it, what will the average new computer user interested in communications do with their new PC? There are alot more options these days. Why would they want to set up a BBS when they can get on the Internet and access thousands of computers easier than they can through Fidonet? I personally feel that the Internet is taking away our newbies. Below is a simple chart showing nodelist size since the beginnings of Fidonet. "NL8411" means "Fidonet Nodelist for a week in November 1984", while "NL9603" means the same for a week in March 1996. I've saved various nodelists throughout Fidonet history for reference, hence the skips in the dates. The column of numbers is the size of the PkZip'ed nodelist in bytes. All are zipped with v2.04. The bar chart is a graphical representation of the PkZip'ed files: NL8411 4596 NL8501 5757 NL8610 37426 = NL8707 59420 == NL8710 70014 === NL8712 82382 ==== NL8802 94654 ==== NL8811 135601 ====== NL8901 160465 ======== NL8905 160402 ======== NL9001 196178 ========= NL9005 234354 =========== NL9112 409959 ==================== NL9212 595536 ============================= NL9305 680494 ================================== FidoNews 13-10 Page: 6 04 Mar 1996 NL9310 725856 ==================================== NL9406 908154 ============================================= NL9501 993234 ================================================= NL9508 1076654 ===================================================== NL9601 1051545 ==================================================== NL9603 1060399 ==================================================== As you can see, growth has decreased rapidly since early 1995. That's been over a year, and now we're showing little to no growth. My guess is that Fidonet will experience slow growth over the summer, but who knows after that. I encourage everyone to help promote Fidonet by encouraging new members. Take your best regular BBS users and suggest that they join. Think about why you joined, and propose the same to others. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HTML pages in FidoNet From Simon Richter (2:2480/604.12) In my opinion, FidoNet should adopt the HTML standard, but do a few changes to it: Graphics: Instead of sending the pictures together with the mail (which would be too expensive here in Germany, as we pay for local calls), we could insert some file request kludge. Whoever wants to see the picture, may double-click on it, and it would be put into some *.REQ file and downloaded from the writer's bossnode or next uplink supporting file requests. Hyperlinks: We could introduce some new link types by simply putting a 'FTN-' in front or the like: - 'ftn-html' points to another message (e.g. "<As Mr. Smith told before>...") - 'ftn-ftp' A simple file request. - 'ftn-telnet' Find out the phone number and call it using a simple terminal program (e.g. "Have you seen my <BBS> yet?") - 'ftn-news' order an area - 'ftn-mailto' post an answer via netmail ("Reach Amiga Tech. at: <Amiga Technologies, Gilles Bourdin, 1:2345/678.90>) Advantages: - Graphics support - Easy Smith&Wesson (point and click) interface for file requests - Message linkage Disadvantages: - New software had to be written - New software had to be used, too... I'd like to get some comments about this (suggestions, flames, any- thing... :) ) FidoNews 13-10 Page: 7 04 Mar 1996 Free Listings in the Encyclopedia of Associations by Nigel Allen (1:250/438) ndallen@io.org Free Listings in the Encyclopedia of Associations People who start new new non-profit associations (including othernets, lobbying groups and associations having nothing to do with BBSes) should get their group listed, free of charge, in the Encyclopedia of Associations, so that prospective members, journalists and researchers can get in touch with them. Groups based in the U.S. should write to the following address and ask to be listed: Editor Encyclopedia of Associations Gale Research Inc. 835 Penobscot Building Detroit, MI 48226-4094 Telephone (313) 961-2242 Fax (313) 961-6815 Groups based outside the United States should instead get listed in International Organizations, a directory published by the same company. Its address is: Editor International Organizations Gale Research Inc. 835 Penobscot Building Detroit, MI 48226-4094 U.S.A. Telephone +1 313 961-2242 Fax +1 313 961-6815 As well, groups based outside the United States may also want to get listed in single-country association directories published in their own country, such as the Directory of Associations in Canada. Any librarian should be able to tell you how to get in touch with your country's national association directory, if one exists. Most large libraries have a copy of the Encyclopedia of Associations in hard copy or CD-ROM, but it is probably too expensive for someone to buy for home use. See also my Web page, http://www.io.org/~ndallen/ FidoNews 13-10 Page: 8 04 Mar 1996 Chicken Little Was Right by Bill Whitehouse Date Zones Regions HOSTs HUBs PVT Hold Down Nodes 06-02-95 6 74 790 1817 649 274 737 34893 06-09-95 6 74 791 1822 644 309 717 34916 06-16-95 6 74 791 1816 649 309 744 34896 06-23-95 6 74 791 1815 634 323 771 34996 06-30-95 6 74 792 1809 631 345 769 35032 07-07-95 6 74 792 1804 604 346 797 34871 07-14-95 6 74 791 1815 619 355 824 34983 07-21-95 6 74 791 1819 613 350 816 34982 07-28-95 6 74 794 1821 613 324 825 35044 08-04-95 6 74 794 1821 611 330 814 34976 08-11-95 6 74 791 1815 616 310 796 34953 08-18-95 6 74 791 1810 624 327 878 34928 08-25-95 6 74 790 1825 633 335 871 34843 09-08-95 6 74 797 1834 632 332 879 35020 09-15-95 6 74 797 1834 641 336 889 34932 09-22-95 6 74 797 1839 643 336 859 34860 09-29-95 6 73 757 1815 618 329 841 34471 10-06-95 6 73 797 1852 637 364 864 35027 10-13-95 6 73 797 1852 634 369 917 34905 10-20-95 6 73 795 1843 632 364 902 34747 10-27-95 6 74 799 1848 630 361 906 34765 11-03-95 6 74 803 1842 627 384 899 34740 11-10-95 6 74 803 1843 629 386 957 34662 11-17-95 6 74 802 1842 629 368 950 34539 11-24-95 6 74 802 1857 624 365 948 34514 12-01-95 6 74 798 1850 618 363 896 34434 12-08-95 6 74 799 1848 614 361 870 34400 12-15-95 6 74 799 1845 610 363 839 34317 12-22-95 6 74 799 1848 589 368 828 34244 12-29-95 6 74 799 1837 584 371 855 34176 01-05-96 6 74 799 1837 585 371 856 34038 01-12-96 6 73 797 1831 582 376 853 33989 01-19-96 6 73 798 1819 574 374 869 33906 01-26-96 6 73 802 1825 561 374 903 33923 02-02-96 6 73 804 1826 560 375 892 33867 02-09-96 6 74 810 1839 587 392 878 34525 02-16-96 6 74 811 1837 581 392 914 34464 02-23-96 6 74 811 1830 581 388 913 34390 Compiled by: HSNODE14.RAR 11691 05-12-95 HS-NODE v1.4 Nodelist Statistics Generator FidoNews 13-10 Page: 9 04 Mar 1996 alt.bighub.org FidoNet/Inet gateway From: Wes Mills (1:124/2342) I've started up my own gateway, and thought people would like to know about it. We will be registering our own domain (probably something like fido.org) so that you don't have to use annoying UUCP addressing. ----- FidoNet<->Internet Gateway at 1:124/2342.999 and alt.bighub.org ---------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the Fidonet-Internet gateway run by Wes Mills! We offer FidoNet and Internet members the opportunity to transfer mail between these two networks. Table of Contents: 1) Rules of the gateway 2) How to use the gateway 3) Top 10 ways to get banned 4) Contact information 5) SPECIAL INFORMATION ABOUT THIS GATEWAY --------------- 1) Rules of the gateway By learning from the mistakes and mishaps of the former default gateway, we have put in this set of rules: 1) DO NOT, FOR ANY REASON, AT ANY TIME ATTEMPT TO BYPASS THE BANNED ADDRESSES ON THIS GATEWAY. 2) Subscribing to any mailing lists is prohibited. 3) Exchanging of files is prohibited. 4) No mail is private. 5) Mail to *.z*.fidonet.org will be bounced. 6) Please report any problems you experience. 2) How to use the gateway You may address e-mail from the Internet in two different ways: STANDARD: <name>%p##.f####.n###.z#@alt.bighub.org FEWER KEYS METHOD: <name>%z-nnn-ffff-p@alt.bighub.org Examples: STANDARD: wes.mills%p4.f2342.n124.z1@alt.bighub.org FEWER KEYS: wes.mills%1-124-2342-4@alt.bighub.org For sending from Fidonet to the Internet: FidoNews 13-10 Page: 10 04 Mar 1996 Use their regular e-mail address, but, for the node number, put 1:124/2342.999 3) Top 10 ways to get banned 10) Subscribing to any mailing lists. 9) Trading any files (any encoding method). 8) Assuming mail is private and treating it that way. 7) Being a pissy *C and screwing with the routing. 6) Attempting to overload our pretty overloaded system. 5) Moving massive amounts of unnecessary mail. 4) Attempting to mis-direct other people's mail. 3) Forging messages. 2) Distributing illegal material. AND, THE #1 WAY TO GET BANNED: 1) ANNOYING THE POSTMASTERS. 4) Contact Information E-Mail for the FidoNet->Internet: gary.butters%1-124-2342@alt.bighub.org gary butters @ 1:124/2342 E-Mail for the Internet->FidoNet: postmaster%1-124-2342-4@alt.bighub.org postmaster @ 1:124/2342.4 Postal mail for the whole thing: FidoNet<->Internet Gateway at alt.bighub.org CompuShare Systems P.O. Box 294621 Lewisville, TX 75029-4621 5) Special Information about this Gateway The gateway will go offline at 00:00, February 24, 1996, so that we can switch to a 128k ISDN for routing mail, and to set up the new DNS system. We will announce the new addressing scheme ASAP so that users can start using it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DEATH KNOLL FOR FIDONET? Damian Stamm 1:273/406 Long day. It's about 12:15 am and I've got to be at Temple by 8:30. Plus an hour to get there via train. Not much sleep tonight. But I stay up because I want to post in the Fidonet bases that I carry, and to read the Fidonews that I received yesterday. FidoNews 13-10 Page: 11 04 Mar 1996 Over the years I've read passages about one sysop against another sysop who has been excommunicated by some power-grabbing NC to someone posting a message in Fidonews under the name of Steve Winter when Steve never actually wrote it. But I found it disturbing when the majority of the messages plus the editorial faced on the death of Fidonet. I've virtually been through it all in Fidonet. I've been suspended from conferences, formed my own, created a competing echo before the echo went on the backbone, filed P.C.'s, written in Fidonews, posted in Z1* echoes, and dealt with a suspended user taking advantage of his sysop's absense to continue to rant in an echo I moderate. Now, I've seen the death of one net and am seeing the death of another net I'm involved with now, but all along I always knew I had Fidonet there so that I could continue to write and enjoy the opinions of others. The final article had a point to it when he talked about what trash P4 is. The fact is - we are in Fidonet for a hobby - for fun. But when people get to power who ruin it for others, then it is no longer fun. I know since I had to hobby under the reign of an RC who had the popularity of Castro and support of Steve Forbes. Still, he felt it his "duty" to cause chaos in nets all over the region. But then I heard about a new policy is being formed. But alas, it's not even going to be called Policy 5. The changes are so insignificant (the only change is border rules) that it's gone from Policy 4.07 to 4.08. There was also talk about how technology was going to catch up to Fidonet as well. While we may not be able to stop the internet from taking over what Fidonet produces for us now, we can take care of many squabbles over who is in what position, and at least make the net worthwhile while it is here. In my last message in Fidonews I called for making mandatory elections for *C positions. While I was probably a little too harsh on Bob Satti, I still awe at how the so-called heirarchy claims how they so support elections made at net levels, etc., while at the same time balking at the idea of making it a part of a new policy - Policy 5. However, the facts are the facts. This issue has been going on for years, and Bob Satti has never once shown his face anywhere. The only way I know he exists is he sent me a netmail once. That's it. He has never responded to anything in Fidonews, never written anything in it as long as I have been reading in it, particularly on this subject. What he is scared of, I don't know. Well, since he appoints the RC's and the RC's appoint him, why the need to risk loss of being called yourself the King FidoNews 13-10 Page: 12 04 Mar 1996 of Fidonet when all you have to do is stay quiet and let the status-quo continue, irregardless of what it does for the net? We can talk all we want about old guards and new guards and power grabbing moderators and the like, but the fact is nothing will change as long as a few elitists run the net on their whims. Who are the *C's responsible to? Not the sysops, that's for sure. And until elections are made legitimate and the net is run by the sysops - not by elists - the fidonet nodelist will get smaller and smaller - no matter how many flags they put in it. Damian Stamm SysOp Sports And More BBS (1:273/406) Moderator, NBA_ECHO, FANTASY_SPORTS, POLY273 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Fidonews Information ======================================================================== ------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ---------------- Editor: Donald Tees Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar Tom Jennings, Sylvia Maxwell "FidoNews" BBS FidoNet 1:1/23 BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS) more addresses: Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Postal Service mailing address) FidoNews 154 Victoria St. S. Kitchener, Ontario Canada N2H 2b5 voice: (519) 570-4899 Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation of individual articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews. Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is Copyright 1996 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use FidoNews 13-10 Page: 13 04 Mar 1996 in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds. OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet. PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail address. INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the previously listed address. SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it. "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission. ' ' disgreement is actually necessary, or we'd all have to get in fights or semethin to amuse ourselves,, and create the requisite chaos." -Tom Jennings -- END -------------------------------------------------------------------